| SkullandBonesSkateboards.com Forum Index » SCREEN PRINTING » Plastisol Vs. Waterbase |
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| joystickcriminal |
 Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:19 pm |
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Joined: 30 Oct 2003
Posts: 274
Location: York,PA
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| Ok so i've been messing around with plastisol inks now and i'm thinking of getting some water base inks, and giving them a wirl! I'm really not into plastisol, at all! Now my question is this, what did the old skate companys use for screenin on dark shirts, I was comparing old skate shirts against some of my new ones and tell you the truth, the ones printed with plastisol look like shit, cracking and just not a over all great look to them. So what did they use on the dark shirts and how old is plastisol? |
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| citizenchim |
| Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2004 10:28 am |
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Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 22
Location: montreal
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hi, plastisol really is the way to go. sounds like the cracking may be due to either an improper cure or the cracking may just be due to the age, or the number of times it has been washed etc. the problem with water based inks is they are little trickier to use. with water based inks you have a limited working time as the ink can dry in screen, you can get slow dryers for them which extend the working time, but often it becomes more effort than it is worth. also the temperature determines a big part of how well a waterbased ink will work, printing on a hot day is very frustrating.
one point about plastisol i really like is that i can set a job up to print today, print half of it and come back the next day and print the rest, without having to take the ink out or worry about it drying in screen. |
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| Stranglehold77 |
| Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 9:35 pm |
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ORDER OF THE SKULL
Joined: 10 Apr 2002
Posts: 5437
Location: Victoria BC CANADA
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when printing shirts, plastisol is the only way to go. I agree that the cracking has to be a result of an inproper cure. Plastisol has to hit anywhere in the 300-320 degree area to cure otherwise it will crack and flake off the shirt.
When cured, it is the most durable print around that should last a loooong time. I also like the ability to leave a job set up and not having to worry about the ink drying in the screen. |
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| joystickcriminal |
| Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 10:38 pm |
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Joined: 30 Oct 2003
Posts: 274
Location: York,PA
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| I'm not having any troubles curing the ink myself, i was refering to other companies, and the over all apperance of the graphic with plastisol, if you look at old skate shirts, to me they have more of natural look to them like the graphic is part of the shirt, with plastisol the ink is on top of the shirt and has the rubber feeling to it, my question is what did the old companys use(inks) for dark shirts? I do like the benifits of using plastisol, but just curious of what they used. |
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| citizenchim |
| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 9:21 am |
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Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 22
Location: montreal
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i worked at a shop where we used water based inks to print tea towels, and the ink got into the fibres of the towel, did'nt sit on top and it had a softer feel to it but we were also doing it on an automatic with 6 guys doing damage control. the ink was very fluid and would be constantly leaking under the tapes etc.
is it possible that the shirts you are reffering to were transfers? the charactoristics of plastisol change when they are put through a transfer press. the graphic flattens out, what i mean is that the ridges created when ink sits on ink are flattened and the plastisol does have a more supple feel to it. if you have access to a heat transfer press, try it on one of your printed shirts and then compare it to the rest. the difference is very noticable. |
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| joystickcriminal |
| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 9:52 am |
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Joined: 30 Oct 2003
Posts: 274
Location: York,PA
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| I'm talking about the 80's early 90's i don't think they had heat transfers then other than the gay iron on t- shirt decals. For instance Powell Peralta screened thier shirts, What ink was used for dark shirts? or was it just a very opaque waterbase ink? |
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| citizenchim |
| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:24 am |
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Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 22
Location: montreal
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i'm going to have to go with my gut feeling on this one and say they used plastisol. i've been printing shirts since the late 80's and with the rare exception i have allways used plastisol. it seems to be the industry standard and i can't imagine why they would use something else. but having said that, i could be wrong. there are many different types of plastisol for varying needs, perhaps they were'nt using a standard type.
on a side note, i still think they might be transfers, they could have had them printed up in the hundreds of thousands for dirt cheap and then just heat transfered as they needed them. transfers have been around for a long time, the first one i remember getting was at a kiosk in a shopping mall in the 70's. one of those i'm with stupid type shirts.
sorry i can't be more help. i remember the powel shirts by my memory is fuzzy and can't recall a noticable difference but i probably was'nt paying much attention.
if you have one of the shirts you are referring to, i would suggest you take it to the place where you get your ink from. they might be able to tell exactly the type of ink just by looking at it.
if you do find out the type of ink they used, please post it, i am curious now. |
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| pennswood |
| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 3:50 pm |
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Joined: 14 Sep 2003
Posts: 213
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powell t-shirts were done with discharge inks.
a discharge ink is similar to a bleach.
print the area with discharge ink,
place under flash dryer, the heat actually
removes the dark color dye from the shirt leaving a natural color. not all shirts work with this system.
this way you dont have to run thick white underbase. and you can run waterbased inks on dark shirts. |
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| citizenchim |
| Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 8:56 am |
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Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 22
Location: montreal
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| Stranglehold77 |
| Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 10:55 am |
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ORDER OF THE SKULL
Joined: 10 Apr 2002
Posts: 5437
Location: Victoria BC CANADA
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I know that I had black Powell T's circa 86 that eventually cracked.
Another trick for plastisol is adding softhand(AKA clear) ink to your ink. This will make the ink thinner and soak into the garment more than sit on top. Still doesn't do much for dark shirts though. |
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