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| Cappy |
 Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:01 pm |
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Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 11580
Location: Cloud cuckoo land
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motorpsycho67 wrote: NYC has quite a few community gardens on rooftops and empty lots.
Yes, but even all roofs have it, that wouldn't be enough to feed all citizens. Not to speak crops might fail, weather etc.
In China they play around, how to have self-sufficient regions, or cities with skyscrapers and food on the roof. But in China there is the option to give orders, that it might work. What could happen in the USA, if someone says, "This place can't go on like this anymore, we need space, get rid of some skyscrapers and a few million have to leave the city" and it might be reasonable. Let me guess, "NWO!, Where is my gun?, I ain't going nowhere..".
As nice the idea sounds, but you need something else that will work in praxis.  |
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| motorpsycho67 |
| Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:26 pm |
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Joined: 19 Sep 2007
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Cappy wrote: motorpsycho67 wrote: NYC has quite a few community gardens on rooftops and empty lots.
Yes, but even all roofs have it, that wouldn't be enough to feed all citizens. Not to speak crops might fail, weather etc.
In China they play around, how to have self-sufficient regions, or cities with skyscrapers and food on the roof. But in China there is the option to give orders, that it might work. What could happen in the USA, if someone says, "This place can't go on like this anymore, we need space, get rid of some skyscrapers and a few million have to leave the city" and it might be reasonable. Let me guess, "NWO!, Where is my gun?, I ain't going nowhere..".
As nice the idea sounds, but you need something else that will work in praxis.
It obviously DOES work.
Will Allen does it and teaches others to do it.
There are small farms in cities all over the US. Where do you think I get my dairy and produce? |
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| Cappy |
| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:03 am |
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Joined: 13 Sep 2005
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Location: Cloud cuckoo land
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| I don't deny it does work in some cities. But it will not work in mega cities. A mega city means millions of people, squeezed into a few square meters. Common are heavy car traffic and a insufficient public transport system, which results in heavy polution. You can grow something in a greenhouse, but never openly. Even something will grow, i wouldn't call that healthy. My city has a bit over 500.000 people and its green place in the city is twice the size of the NY Central Park (and we still have poluting problems!). Does NY only have 250.000 citizens? Untill you change the infrastructure and there is a natural balance of clean air and water/soil, growing food there is fiction! Or, not healthy at all! |
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| rightfootforward |
| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:52 am |
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ORDER OF THE SKULL
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 7643
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Here are a few links to old technology that is completely healthy, faster, organic and grows without pesticides.
http://www.organichydroponicsystems.c...icHydroponics.htm
http://organic-vegetable-gardens.suit...oponics_gardening
http://folkmusicfl.tripod.com/hydroponics/
It looks like some people want us to revert back to using wood and stone tools while living in tee pees.
It would seem to me that having faith in future technologies and mankind would be a more viable answer to saving ourselves from a bleak future.
Growing vertically is one of the best solutions we can come up with when it comes to solving our food problems.
There is endless space for all the gardens we need, all you have to do is look up.
There will be no crop losses due to pests or weather, all completely controlled and beautiful, perfect veggies and fruit every time.
Leaving abundant lands for free range cattle, chickens and other animals that taste so damn good.
With solar, wind, geothermal, and water pumping energy for us we could start focusing on real problems like lack of fresh drinking water and starving babies. |
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| motorpsycho67 |
| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:05 pm |
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Joined: 19 Sep 2007
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Cappy wrote: I don't deny it does work in some cities. But it will not work in mega cities. A mega city means millions of people, squeezed into a few square meters. Common are heavy car traffic and a insufficient public transport system, which results in heavy polution. You can grow something in a greenhouse, but never openly. Even something will grow, i wouldn't call that healthy. My city has a bit over 500.000 people and its green place in the city is twice the size of the NY Central Park (and we still have poluting problems!). Does NY only have 250.000 citizens? Untill you change the infrastructure and there is a natural balance of clean air and water/soil, growing food there is fiction! Or, not healthy at all!
You are completely wrong.
It works in NYC, as I mentioned before, but you conveniently ignored.
The problem isn't the size or pollution in a big city, but convincing the people to do it. Most Americans in cities take the path of least resistance, i.e. grocery stores. A lot of Americans are too lazy/apathetic for it to work on a large scale. That's the real battle.
Same reasons politics in this country were allowed to get to where they are....... apathy and misinformation.
Once again, you're commenting on something you obviously know nothing about. |
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| Cappy |
| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:15 pm |
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Joined: 13 Sep 2005
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Location: Cloud cuckoo land
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Comrade motorpsycho67, such drastic reforms have never worked in history, and many tried to reform food growing behind the iron curtain!
You have already everything, the problem lies that people aren't willing to spend more on better food! Therefore small farms and farmers can't offer a better price, because of no demand. Meanwhile they have to make a living, while the huge industrial farms profit from the huge subsidies of the government.
Quote: In the US, there are approximately 2,000,000 farmers, less than 1% of the population.
Hm, that doesn't look lazy. More the race to the bottom of demanding everything cheap, cheaper, cheapest...
You need a whole change of the food industry. Otherwise you need alot of space for cows, pigs on roofs, if you ever want to eat natural meat again. |
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| motorpsycho67 |
| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:19 pm |
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Joined: 19 Sep 2007
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Cappy wrote: Comrade motorpsycho67, such drastic reforms have never worked in history, and many tried to reform food growing behind the iron curtain!
You have already everything, the problem lies that people aren't willing to spend more on better food! Therefore small farms and farmers can't offer a better price, because of no demand. Meanwhile they have to make a living, while the huge industrial farms profit from the huge subsidies of the government.
Quote: In the US, there are approximately 2,000,000 farmers, less than 1% of the population.
Hm, that doesn't look lazy. More the race to the bottom of demanding everything cheap, cheaper, cheapest...
You need a whole change of the food industry. Otherwise you need alot of space for cows, pigs on roofs, if you ever want to eat natural meat again.
You touched on another part of the equation.
Price, along with apathy and misinformation, are what keeps it from working on a larger scale.
Americans, for the most part, are brainwashed into thinking cheaper is better. Especially now that the economy is what it is.
Also, companies like Monsanto and ConAgra are trying to shut down small/organic farms.
The food industry does need major change, same as the government. People like Will Allen are a beacon of hope. |
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| Cappy |
| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:55 am |
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Joined: 13 Sep 2005
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Location: Cloud cuckoo land
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We can go on with other parts, like the government/economy and still in line with the topic.
The USA is the world’s largest single food importer, hence one of its trade deficits problems. Eating more locally, seasonal is therefore not only good in one point. A reduction of the deficit, gives confidence for people all over the world, to deposit in whatever form, money in the USA. Which stops the fall of your currency, and, this stored money will be used to invest, in creating local jobs. Which then leaves the people with money in hand to buy better stuff. Well, that is of course the theory and it never works so perfect in reality, but you see, along the whole chain, your food projects are just the rats tail!
I did read about your general community gardenings, i was amazed that in this case, not everything is bigger in the USA. Maybe you should increase this like the most european allotment gardens. This is a tradition here for most families, and there is no need for extra fertilizers or how to grow what. The soil is for generations keeped natural and all what you need is to place the seeds. As kids we used to sneak in allotments before school, and filled our pockets with cherrys, apples etc.   |
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