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Ceramic Bearings- Worth the cost?

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stringtheory
Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:37 am Reply with quote
Joined: 28 Feb 2009 Posts: 26 Location: NJ
Any one have an inside line on Rons bearings? Will there be some any time soon? Ceramic or not.
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slob-air
Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:39 am Reply with quote
Site Admin Joined: 27 Oct 2001 Posts: 63453 Location: S&B HQ
Nope.

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motorpsycho67
Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:16 am Reply with quote
Joined: 19 Sep 2007 Posts: 18129
Ron's done?

No more bearings?

You know this for sure Blair?
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slob-air
Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:19 am Reply with quote
Site Admin Joined: 27 Oct 2001 Posts: 63453 Location: S&B HQ
I don't know if he's done. But...

He's incommunicado.

Website gone.

E-mail gone.

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motorpsycho67
Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:41 am Reply with quote
Joined: 19 Sep 2007 Posts: 18129
I know he's had family issues in the recent past.

Hope everything's alright.
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stringtheory
Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:05 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 28 Feb 2009 Posts: 26 Location: NJ
Yeah, it's beat. I covet his bearings.

I noticed both his sites were gone a month or so ago.
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longbord1
Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:31 am Reply with quote
Joined: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 64
Sorry to beat a dead horse but...

Quote from Silverfishlongboarding.com

Quote:
From Connor circa1990


The best bearings: The truth behind the secrecy.
The truth behind the best brand is...

*drumroll*

IT DOESN'T EXIST!

Read this first
http://wiki.silverfishlongboarding.c...ation_and_FAQs

Lets lay down some basic info here:
- ABEC rating means nothing in skateboarding, only in manufacturing, automotive or other industry with high rotational speeds
- Materials used are far more important than ABEC rating for impact and longevity
- The grease or oil you use will affect you more than the materials or ABEC for speed
- Proper spacers and speed rings are 100% recommended in your setup and without them serious injury can occur (see below for explanation)

I'm not going to explain ABEC because google will do a better job than me so go look it up.
Skate rating means nothing as well because there is no standardized engineering society looking after it. What nobody seems to realize is that 608 bearings ARE NOT SKATEBOARD BEARINGS. They are in fact a standard size and shape that skateboards happen to use!

For materials the thing is that companies will not tell you what they are using...
hmmm...
but basics wise Chrome steel is the best, Carbon is second best and please don't use others including ceramic.
Ceramic materials are too hard to be used in impact driven sports like Longboarding and I know someone will say "not true man mine are awesome!" I'm happy for you but ceramic materials are too hard with not enough modulus to be effective against random impact and sidways forces. They have a tendancy to sieze, fracture or explode more often than metal bearings (Plus they are expensive and do almost nothing for you for the price). Ceramic bearing were made for the manufacturing and automotive industry for stationary parts only undergoing rotational forces. Ceramic 608 bearings are not made for us to use.

Materials!
If your actually curious about which grades of steel are best for bearings heres a list from highest to lowest (stars indicate chance of corrosion from 1 to 5):

Ultra-High Content Carbon Steels *****
314*** (Cannot get a definitive answer from engineers on this one)
301*
304**

Clean your bearings often if you want to go fast
For the ultimate speed use bearing oil with Molybdenum diSulfide or dry lubricant with it.
Use standard bearing oil if you need it wont hurt anything.

For longevity use grease
The best grease uses Polyalphaolefin, also known as Polyolefin.
Lithium or fine synthetic is common and easy to find.

The best cleaning combonation you can use is to wash in Acetone (Toxic fumes warning) and then rinse in Isopropyl alochol (>93%). The acetone will harvest the dirt and oil from your bearings but will remain unless you rinse afterwards.

It is recommended to assemble your bearings with spacers and speed rings. Sliding can explode your bearing by popping out the inner race otherwise.

The cheapest bearings are bulk. My preference is for basic 608 chrome steel with nylon cages double sealed.

I use these because they have nylon cages which are awesome!
100 ABEC-7 skateboard/inline Skate Bearings:Nylon:Sealed:Ball Bearings:VXB

I like em and so do my friends they ship quickly and for pretty cheap (This coming from a Canadian ordering from California)

a cheaper CHROME STEEL
100 ABEC-7 Sealed Skateboard/inline/Rollerblade Skate Bearings:Ball Bearings:VXB

rustacular CARBON STEEL
100 608-2RS Skateboard/Inline Skate/Rollerblade/Hockey Bearings:Ball Bearings:VXB

Bam! Your now a pro.

Information on 608 bearings and materials thanks to mechanical and materials engineers
Lubricant and Cleaning solvents thanks to chemist professor
All names witheld upon request
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slob-air
Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:25 am Reply with quote
Site Admin Joined: 27 Oct 2001 Posts: 63453 Location: S&B HQ
He has a few good points, but is largely in error on a number of things.



By the way, Ron is back and Rockets Stage III Ballistech Missiles are available.

In the US: www.kickassbearings.com (including US distribution)

In Canada and Europe: www.speed-dealer.ca (including Canadian Distribution)

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slavadov
Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:05 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 02 Nov 2008 Posts: 3192 Location: Michigan
slob-air wrote:
He has a few good points, but is largely in error on a number of things.



By the way, Ron is back and Rockets Stage III Ballistech Missiles are available.

In the US: www.kickassbearings.com (including US distribution)

In Canada and Europe: www.speed-dealer.ca (including Canadian Distribution)

Rip it to shreds, slob!

On the one hand, I've got almost every skate site I've ever visited telling me what lb1 posted...On the other hand, I've got tons of people on this site telling me that that's mostly incorrect. SnB and all the other skate forums I've been on are consistently good sources of information, save for the whole bearing debate, so I'm up for hearing anything that proves the other one is more wrong.

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slob-air
Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:19 pm Reply with quote
Site Admin Joined: 27 Oct 2001 Posts: 63453 Location: S&B HQ
Connor wrote:

The best bearings: The truth behind the secrecy.
The truth behind the best brand is...

*drumroll*

IT DOESN'T EXIST!


Wrong. It is the Rockets Stage III Ballistech MIssile and Nuclear Misssile which are soon to be joined by the new Rockets Stage IIII which is even faster, exhibits higher levels of precision and marks the return of true Labyrinth seals—to be available with high quality steel balls and a ceramic version.

Connor wrote:

- ABEC rating means nothing in skateboarding, only in manufacturing, automotive or other industry with high rotational speeds


Basically its how the bearing matches up with other parts and at what level of precision.

Connor wrote:

- Materials used are far more important than ABEC rating for impact and longevity


We don't know that. Nobody has ridden anything higher than an ABEC 3 —a true ABEC 5 may in fact perform measurably better. The quality of the steel and the manufacture is critical though. It would also cost over $450 a set.


Connor wrote:
- The grease or oil you use will affect you more than the materials or ABEC for speed


Depends on the materials though lube is very important. Shit Chinese steel is just that, shit.


Connor wrote:
- Proper spacers and speed rings are 100% recommended in your setup and without them serious injury can occur (see below for explanation)


I rode for 20+ years without spacers. Spacers are wise to use for downhill, slalom and street due to the heightened side load—which is not such an issue with park and vert riding (though I tend to use them these days).

Connor wrote:

I'm not going to explain ABEC because google will do a better job than me so go look it up.


ABEC is the Annular Bearing Engineering Committee who set the standards via the ABEC rating. They also divide bearings into classes that indicate the tolerances. Usually the higher the ABEC rating, the lower theClass number (the lower the class the higher the tolerance).

Connor wrote:

Skate rating means nothing as well because there is no standardized engineering society looking after it. What nobody seems to realize is that 608 bearings ARE NOT SKATEBOARD BEARINGS. They are in fact a standard size and shape that skateboards happen to use!


Skate Rating was developed by Bones bearings who did not want to participate in the industry wide ABEC fraud. However, Bones bearing are engineered and designed in house and are not just a random bearing. Their skate rated system allows them to weigh in other elements of their bearings that are beneficial to skating as apposed to the ABEC rating which in many ways does not apply.


Connor wrote:

For materials the thing is that companies will not tell you what they are using...
hmmm...


Companies are obviously not going to reveal their formulas. Most don't know them as they are only brands. However, Rockets are made with high grade US steel and rubber seals made in Taiwan (good rubber there).



Connor wrote:

but basics wise Chrome steel is the best, Carbon is second best and please don't use others including ceramic.


Chrome bearings are generally ABEC 7 and would cost $1,000 a set for 608 bearings. Most chrome bearings in the skateboard industry are actually chromed bearings, coated—which is a bad idea.

Carbon is an element of most steel alloys. 0.40 percent carbon is generally termed carbon steel despite that being very minute levels in the alloy.


But ultimately, the term carbon just indicates its not stainless steal.


Connor wrote:

Ceramic materials are too hard to be used in impact driven sports like Longboarding and I know someone will say "not true man mine are awesome!" I'm happy for you but ceramic materials are too hard with not enough modulus to be effective against random impact and sidways forces. They have a tendancy to sieze, fracture or explode more often than metal bearings (Plus they are expensive and do almost nothing for you for the price). Ceramic bearing were made for the manufacturing and automotive industry for stationary parts only undergoing rotational forces. Ceramic 608 bearings are not made for us to use.


Wrong.

Nitrides Si3N4 (grey balls) is a material that is an optimal rolling element. In fact, it has a much higher rolling contact fatigue number (RCF), lower thermal expansion and lower coefficient of friction against steel and can be made rounder than steel—essential to improved rolling element performance in a bearing.

The white ceramic ball variety (Zr203 Oxides) have a lower a RCF rating, higher thermal expansion and a higher coefficient of friction against steel are junk. As are the various ceramic coated steel balls.

Zr203 Oxides (white balls) are half the price of Si3N4 Nitrides for a reason.


Connor wrote:

Materials!
If your actually curious about which grades of steel are best for bearings heres a list from highest to lowest (stars indicate chance of corrosion from 1 to 5):

Ultra-High Content Carbon Steels *****
314*** (Cannot get a definitive answer from engineers on this one)
301*
304**


314 is far to brittle and thus difficult to make fats clean precision races.


Connor wrote:

Clean your bearings often if you want to go fast
For the ultimate speed use bearing oil with Molybdenum diSulfide or dry lubricant with it.
Use standard bearing oil if you need it wont hurt anything.


Wrong.

A light Synthetic hydrocarbon lubricating oil fortified with anti-wear additives (like those designed for high speed Gyro, Gimbals, Accelerometers), super filtered tto .045 microns is a far better choice.

Rockin Rons secret formula for his Extreme Fluid is unmatched at 3 x the price.

Connor wrote:

For longevity use grease
The best grease uses Polyalphaolefin, also known as Polyolefin.
Lithium or fine synthetic is common and easy to find.


Grease is a good choice for dirty and wet surfaces. And although there are some incredible greases, they will not perform to the level of Ron's Extreme Fluid.

Connor wrote:
The best cleaning combonation you can use is to wash in Acetone (Toxic fumes warning) and then rinse in Isopropyl alochol (>93%). The acetone will harvest the dirt and oil from your bearings but will remain unless you rinse afterwards.


99% is preferred. 93% can cause rust in ultra polished races.

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