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Buck Toff |
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:00 pm |
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ORDER OF THE SKULL

Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 4438
Location: Industrial Gulag
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I've been contemplating investing in some screen printing equipment for a T Shirt/fashion/promotion company so I've been doing some research. But along the way I've come across Digital Textile and/or T Shirt Printing and many companies that are offering that kind of service, or others offering the equipment. From the images and promo videos I've seen on the web, this is a pretty new method and the possibilities to do some very creative things seem pretty exciting.
I'm no expert in the printing field, (my focus is on the graphic art and creative side), but it would seem to me that if it is possible to print any image straight from a computer onto any fabric or t shirt (including black shirts) without the hassle of limiting the number of colors and then separating them in the art, burning screens, cleaning up messy inks etc, why would anyone still want to print the old way?
Yet digital printing does not seem to be the industry standard. Why is this? Inferior quality? Cost of the equipment? Cost per shirt? Reliability? Lack of speed? Please enlighten me. Thanks. |
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Stranglehold77 |
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:48 pm |
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ORDER OF THE SKULL

Joined: 10 Apr 2002
Posts: 5437
Location: Victoria BC CANADA
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I was working at a shop in Vernon that bought the first digital printing system in western Canada. It was pretty cool, but we quickly found out how glitchy the machine could get, and the end result was always lacking. The colors didn't pop like they do in a screen print because the ink seeps into the material of the shirt rather than on top.
I dunno, that was a few years ago. Maybe they're getting better. |
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Buck Toff |
Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:33 pm |
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ORDER OF THE SKULL

Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 4438
Location: Industrial Gulag
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A lot of these sites are offering free samples of digitally printed work so maybe that is an indication they are confident the quality is now there, but I will reserve any judgments until I can look at the work with my own eyes to actually see if it compares to the quality of screen printing. I must say though, that for an artist with minimal screen printing experience, (and a lazy streak to boot), the prospect of skipping all the usual steps to becoming a highly skilled printer and instead simply pushing a button to reproduce my work is damn enticing. |
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newrepublicsteve |
Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:54 pm |
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Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 674
Location: Birmingham
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the cost of the machines is between 16-20 grand
for black shirts they need to be pretreated
the machines are extremley slow
an the colors are meh...
for 1 off's and low runs they might be better the screen printing in the long run....
but from what I've seen not nearly worth the investment at this point.
try sublimation lower start up cost and the same results if not better |
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Buck Toff |
Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:42 pm |
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ORDER OF THE SKULL

Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 4438
Location: Industrial Gulag
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That's interesting. Thanks. What do you consider low runs? And how are the simple designs in whites and blacks, meaning the black on white and white on black? Seems even the best screen printing jobs on black have a rubbery look/feel to them, and apparently lining up a color over an initial white layer is tough with some intricate designs....I don't imagine that being a problem with a digital printer. |
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newrepublicsteve |
Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:54 pm |
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Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 674
Location: Birmingham
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anything under 12 is a low run to us
and I have not seen just white on black
more info here
http://myt-jet.com/
for regular printing
http://screenprinters.net/
more information in settng up and running then you could ever want
some of it is b.s.
but there is a lot of good information on how to get a nice white print on black without the heavy handed feel...
as for lining up mulitcolors
there are a lot of ticks, but your best investment is in a press with micro registrations and a good way to output consistent films...
if the films don't line up the screens wont.
10 colors on black with a light grey underbase, not white
practice practice practice[/img] |
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Earwick66 |
Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 12:25 am |
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Joined: 27 Oct 2005
Posts: 3565
Location: Grand Saline,TX
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defstarsteve wrote: the cost of the machines is between 16-20 grand
and thats just the cost of the machines..just think how much it would cost to replace those ink cartridges..you know how outrageous your normal home computer ink costs
for black shirts they need to be pretreated
black shirts seem to ALWAYS be the majority of runs ...some other shirtcolors are "seasonal" but its always a good time for black tee's
the machines are extremley slow
ive been to many trade shows and seen these machines in action..even the latest/most bad ass/fastest machine out there is too slow and when you have an order of 3000+ shirts nobody on earth has that kind of time to spare.
+ the cost of replacing inks would most likely override any profit you may have been able to turn on these shirts...dont price yourself out of a job and dont give it away..that's the "fine line" you tread in printing.
an the colors are meh...
i'm a die hard plastisol junkie..nothing in my mind will ever replace what can be done with plastisol/inks on shirts
for 1 off's and low runs they might be better the screen printing in the long run....
this is what these salesmen seem to use as their initial sales pitch:.."for pre-pro samples/test prints/low runs etc. this machine will be easier than
the "hassle" of "normal" printing methods"
i say..fuck that..if setting up/registering screens for only a few shirts upsets you, then maybe youre in the wrong business...pre-pro samples can/will save you money if a customer doesnt see what they are getting beforehand and you get some detail wrong or use the wrong ink color and have to eat the job.[/end rant]
but from what I've seen not nearly worth the investment at this point.
i will be shocked if these machines and this method becomes the norm because i know it would need to be a hell of a lot faster printing time for anyone to rely on these machines for huge orders.
try sublimation lower start up cost and the same results if not better |
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Buck Toff |
Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 12:58 am |
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ORDER OF THE SKULL

Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 4438
Location: Industrial Gulag
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It's amazing how much you can learn in a short time....I've been surfing for a few hours and along with this thread have found a couple of forums dedicated to DTG (Direct To Garment) Printing. From what I have read so far, it sounds like the technology has a lot of promise, but a lot of quirks and cons too, speed being one of the main factors, especially with dark shirts considering all the prep work that goes into it. Since I also agree that black shirts are where it's at, seems it has a ways to go yet.
But I recall seeing a hybrid machine somewhere in my online travels yesterday....a printer attached to a screen press. Maybe to quickly screen a white layer before printing out the details? That sounds like a decent compromise.
Anyways, I find this fascinating. I love technology, but I also like the kind of craftsmanship needed for decent screen printing jobs. Hell, I still enjoy cutting out stencils by hand which is a pretty retro technology. I have heard stencils referred to as "the poor man's screen printing".
BTW, that's a great shirt and print, defstar. Thanks. |
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newrepublicsteve |
Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:07 am |
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Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 674
Location: Birmingham
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thanks man
the all in one press/exposure unit/dryer is a rip off...
there are a few companies that make them and they are pretty bottom line as far as equipment goes, as in the press don't hold register well, cheap easily broken parts...
I started doing this for my old punk bands and I am amazed at how much I have learned and how far it has taken me...
and how much I don't know, not from lack of wanting but from lack of resources to pour into R&D
as was said before plastisol rules
like the bicycle it maybe improved upon here and there but the design was perfect to begin with and will never really change.
the best we can do is work to perfect our art and processes to make the best prints possible without losing our shirts...ha ha |
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Stranglehold77 |
Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:00 am |
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ORDER OF THE SKULL

Joined: 10 Apr 2002
Posts: 5437
Location: Victoria BC CANADA
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Steve speaks the truth.
If I had a dollar for every time some sales dick or shop owner proclaimed that some wacky new technology was going to make screenprinting obsolete... Well I wouldn't have to punish my wrists and elbows screenprinting anymore!
The digital press that I used at my old job wat upwards of $300 Grand!!!!! At the time (2005) it was the third one in North America and they had to fly a crew out from Israel (where it was made) to set it up. Speed was not a huge issue for it, but everything else was.
I stand by my squeegee! |
_________________ STIFF HOMBRE!!!!! |
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