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stronger decks - ply ways?

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Fedupskateboards
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:30 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 24 Aug 2004 Posts: 117 Location: Corpus Christi TX
I was just wondering if the skateboard has been perfected in the ways it gets plied... I mean I don't really know all too much about the actual manufacturing of skateboards, so may you help me out? Would it be possible to run the plys diagnal and crossing eachother. It'd be twice the strength, but i know there must be some flaw in the idea, otherwise it would've been done before, so please let me know. Thanks,
-Josh

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notaint
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:58 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 29 Apr 2004 Posts: 295 Location: jackson ms
I know this guy...

He was laying up his boards with the long, cross, and diaganol grains. It made for a strong deck but you end up with alot of wasted wood. So the idea is good but the costs are flawed.
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skinny
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 6:05 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 12 Sep 2004 Posts: 2706
I have tried many different "lay-ups" I have used ash, hard birch, canadian maple. and north american maple. I can also say that I have built 9, 12, 7 and 8 ply decks. I have had to adjust for costs, availability, and quailty/ hardness of the veneer itself. Here is what I ended up learning....
I learned that maple for skateboards must be rotary cut, and kiln dried. It has very specific moisture control from the day it is cut until the finished deck is shrinkwrapped. It is usually sold in large "container" sales and depending on your supplier board feet sometimes. Mills determine the cut thicknesses, grade of veneer, and length/width of the veneer. Most mills will offer some kind of options for veneer thinkness and size when you order. Larger manufactuers (in the past) usually determine what a mill cuts and sells. (example: there are not alot of mills producing longboard veneers in huge orders, so they concentrate on filling orders for the mainstream sized decks more often.) I was able to order 8 ply cuts for a lay-up that I used early on. Every cut was different from what the mill usually produced so I waited longer for my wood and payed more too. This order was Canadian maple. I wasn't too thrilled with the product ,the material cost too much, and the stuff dried out quick and for some reason they were short some cross bands. Since then I have been able to use a more conventional 7-ply "lay-up" and I found costs were better, wait time is short, and the material itself has been outstanding. I belive that when done properly a 7 ply lay up has everything desired built into it to make a quailty deck for a reasonable price.
Now here is what T.w. biz did on this subject and if you read it you might learn something about skateboard construction..... http://www.skateboarding.com/skate/magazine/article/0,12768,200733,00.html
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Fedupskateboards
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 6:18 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 24 Aug 2004 Posts: 117 Location: Corpus Christi TX
skinny your my idol ...lol. I saved a comment you posted about kiln drying and rotary peeling when somebody asked you about what kind of wood the maple actually is a while. My problem is, I don't make the decks myself. Our manufacturer does. So, im not too sure of my options. What questions do you think would be appropriate for me to ask in maybe compiling a better, stronger, deck?

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ThrashCan
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 6:30 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 16 Mar 2004 Posts: 1331
skinny im planing on doing a run of 8ply popsicles and was wondering if there are any issues with that or things to look our for.

Thanks
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skinny
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 6:58 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 12 Sep 2004 Posts: 2706
You both asked the right questions.....
First any manufacturer should be able to tell you what kind of glue, maple, and lay-up they are using. ask for glue type the preferred types are k-10, k-13. Cold pressing is preferred. Heat pressing denotes only two things...heat activated dry lam sheets (amature hour) or although less likely they are using a similar process to what I use and heat pressing it is the wrong way to do it anyway. Next ask about things like overall thickness of the laminate. A seven ply deck in the mid eightys was made of 5 legnth wise veneer peeled at .16 or 1/16 of an inch. and two crossgrain veneer (crossbands) of the same thickness. These boards were beefy and heavy but could take the fad of launch ramps everyday. What most woodshops are doing is reducing the overall thickness of the laminates by many different methods including reducing the size of all veneer thicknes and adding more plys, or maintaining the lengthwise veneer thicknes and reducing the crossband thickness, or as in my case alittle of both, and a reduction of the thickest veneer to .17.
Now if you are confused don't feel bad it is confusing shit. The main thing is pick your manufacturers brain and talk his ear off about what they offer. As a side note the theory of a durablue deck is that the more material going in the length wise postion the more resistant to breakage it will be.
I personally don't recomend using any lengthwise veneer thinner than .20 and if you incorporate a crossband of .24 compensate by using a thicker crossband in the same lay-up (.16,.17.20). When your lay-up is done I recomend putting the thinner stock twards the top of the deck.
If you still wnat more info write me: snowteck1@hotmail.com
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Fedupskateboards
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:04 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 24 Aug 2004 Posts: 117 Location: Corpus Christi TX
wow. Thats why i posted here before asking my manufacturer direct, b/c we have only produced 4 or so orders and we have exchanged over 400 emails. I feel like i ask soo many questions so by posting here i slimmed a few. I'll ask about what i understand in the comment and send you the info and let me know what you think. Thanks so much man,
Josh

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skinny
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:07 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 12 Sep 2004 Posts: 2706
Cool!
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ThrashCan
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:51 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 16 Mar 2004 Posts: 1331
Appreciate the info skinny.

I'm not sure of the thickness of the plys on my decks. I want to add an 8th ply of the same thickness if not thicker. If I did this which direction do I want the grain?

I'm hoping this added ply will ad more durability to the decks. Not to say my decks are weak but there is always room for improvement.

Thanks for the help I look forward to this.
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skinny
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:34 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 12 Sep 2004 Posts: 2706
I would suggest it going lengthwise and instead of placing it in the middlie place it twards the top above the first crossbands so the layup goes three lengthwise,crossband, lengthwise,crossband,and two lengthwise. The added ply must be compensated for by reducing the thickness of all the veneers. Check out the link for the article that I posted earlier, you might want to explore a 9 ply instead. Just to throw some shit on the fire, have you guys looked into carbon fibre? Factory 13 is using it right now and I am gonna get some soon....
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