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Indy cross (WTF)

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KevinH
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 1:45 am Reply with quote
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What's the deal with Indy and no longer using the Maltese cross? It's not a German iron cross, as we all know.

Here's the Pope photo that Phillips referenced when he drew up the design:


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mosu101
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 6:51 am Reply with quote
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ready the Indy book, there is a chapter on it.

the cross in question is the Maltess cross, same as the pope wears.

Indy thought it would be good to use for their product.

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KevinH
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:20 am Reply with quote
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mosu101 wrote:
ready the Indy book, there is a chapter on it.

the cross in question is the Maltess cross, same as the pope wears.

Indy thought it would be good to use for their product.


Unfortunately it’s $61 used. Although I own a couple Jim Phillips books, which has the Pope info.

Jim Phillips is far from sketchy. What do Jim or Jimbo have to say about the topic? It doesn’t make sense that someone might misinterpret the image and suddenly it gets pulled because of someone’s ignorance. Better to explain the difference and point out where people are incorrect, rather than lose sales.
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MrCokesNSmokes
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 11:23 am Reply with quote
Joined: 01 Dec 2006 Posts: 2074 Location: Phoenix, AZ
From what I've heard (which might not be all that reliable, just sayin'), NHS decided to take the initiative to change the logo because they didn't want to be taken down by "cancel culture". Which is kinda weird, because the actual Indy cross, a variation of the Cross Pattee called the Cross Alisee, has been used forever in human history, is still used by many nations, religions, and institutions today, and doesn't really have any racist connotations at all. It is, at its root, a Christian cross. See the Wiki here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_patt%C3%A9e

I suspect that:

- Fausto would be rolling in his grave if he knew that NHS was bowing down to a bunch of underinformed pussies, and

- It will probably be back, eventually. That new Indy logo is weak as fuck.
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KevinH
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 11:58 am Reply with quote
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MrCokesNSmokes wrote:
From what I've heard (which might not be all that reliable, just sayin'), NHS decided to take the initiative to change the logo because they didn't want to be taken down by "cancel culture". Which is kinda weird, because the actual Indy cross, a variation of the Cross Pattee called the Cross Alisee, has been used forever in human history, is still used by many nations, religions, and institutions today, and doesn't really have any racist connotations at all. It is, at its root, a Christian cross. See the Wiki here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_patt%C3%A9e

I suspect that:

- Fausto would be rolling in his grave if he knew that NHS was bowing down to a bunch of underinformed pussies, and

- It will probably be back, eventually. That new Indy logo is weak as fuck.


I concur. How would "cancel culture" "take them down" though? People might mistakenly complain online, but I don't see anything happening beyond that.

NHS shot themselves in the foot by not standing firm and clearly explaining the difference. Their new designs do not look good. Loss of revenue will be a result.
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MrCokesNSmokes
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2022 4:09 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 01 Dec 2006 Posts: 2074 Location: Phoenix, AZ
KevinH wrote:


I concur. How would "cancel culture" "take them down" though? People might mistakenly complain online, but I don't see anything happening beyond that.

NHS shot themselves in the foot by not standing firm and clearly explaining the difference. Their new designs do not look good. Loss of revenue will be a result.


Cancel culture has been running pretty rampant, and as far as I recall, it was at a peak when they changed the logo. Maybe they feared that they'd be next somewhere down the line, and wanted to dodge the bullet before it even fired?

Funny thing is that my company (Zeppelin Aero Works) uses legit 1914 -to-1918-era German iron crosses, and the company is run by a Jew (me) and a female (my lady). And no, we will not be bowing down to any of the cancel culture crybabies.

Even if the logo is controversial (which it shouldn't be because, again, the Nazis came to power in 1933, not 1914)... this is skateboarding, buddy. We should be sparking a little bit of controversy here and there, not running away from it. Punk rock, dude. Deal with it.
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steve-g
Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 11:41 am Reply with quote
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For sure they did it before they got called out in some stupid online mobbing. There was a change.org petition for Indy to drop their 'Nazi' logo created by some clueless kid, it didn't get far but I guess Indy saw the storm clouds. Once the hysteria is in full frothing mode, what can you do - logic doesn't work with some mob, like those idiots trying to ban books from schools.

In the Indy book there's the story of the Pope wearing that cross but I think those dudes' memories are clouded by the passing of time. That magazine came out after the Indy logo was already seen at various pool comps. Photos are in Skateboarder.

I see the cross as a combination of three influences: punk appropriation of fascist symbolism, '60s biker culture and surfing's interest in Eastern mysticism.

Denis Stock's famous 'Bikers' photo:




'70s Punks:




A surfer's cross found at a swap meet by O:




Interesting that as we move further away from the era of fascism these symbols become more potent, not less. Makes me wonder what did WWII veterans think when they saw punks on London streets wearing Nazi regalia, or kids in Santa Monica drawing Swastikas on their decks. Maybe those outrages were individualised but now with the internet it easy to organise outrage into a mob...
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zeno01
Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 12:47 pm Reply with quote
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WE ALL KNOW the story of how the Indy Cross came about, and it was done with the best of intentions.

Times change. It's a good looking logo, but in the end, it's just a logo. Wanna stick with Indys, cool. Wanna dump 'em for someting else. Whatever works, you've got options.

Does cancel culture go too far at times? Yes
Does that mean anything really changes either way? Who knows...

I'm honestly indifferent. They chose to move away from the logo, so what? I still found it shitty that they went on a "American Made" campaign before they jumped to China. Who the fuck you think you are, GM?!? It's branding. EVERYONE DOES IT. June everyone is rainbow pride, July everyone is Red, White, & Blue. Who gives a shit what business push, it's all hot air.
(and yes, I know Independent is one of "our" companies, but is it really?!?)

IDK, is it a battle worth fighting?
If you want to tell the story of the Indy Cross, go right ahead. Defend it, it's up to you. Will it really change anyone's mind?

(The earth is doomed, there's worse problems out there worth fighting for than a company logo).

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thugfrm87
Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 3:31 pm Reply with quote
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In have the indy cross on my elbow. I get called out for it all the time.
I might just get it covered.
People just want to be angry over something.
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KevinH
Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 1:02 pm Reply with quote
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zeno01 wrote:
WE ALL KNOW the story of how the Indy Cross came about, and it was done with the best of intentions.

Times change. It's a good looking logo, but in the end, it's just a logo. Wanna stick with Indys, cool. Wanna dump 'em for someting else. Whatever works, you've got options.

Does cancel culture go too far at times? Yes
Does that mean anything really changes either way? Who knows...

I'm honestly indifferent. They chose to move away from the logo, so what? I still found it shitty that they went on a "American Made" campaign before they jumped to China. Who the fuck you think you are, GM?!? It's branding. EVERYONE DOES IT. June everyone is rainbow pride, July everyone is Red, White, & Blue. Who gives a shit what business push, it's all hot air.
(and yes, I know Independent is one of "our" companies, but is it really?!?)

IDK, is it a battle worth fighting?
If you want to tell the story of the Indy Cross, go right ahead. Defend it, it's up to you. Will it really change anyone's mind?

(The earth is doomed, there's worse problems out there worth fighting for than a company logo).


I agree for the most part. "Times change", but I don't think retards that don't skate or have a clear understanding of our culture should be allowed to decide what's "appropriate" for the rest of us. It's a form of censorship.

That said, it was a corporate decision... when you outsource to another country, there also may be political pressure involved. So I'm curious if that happened as well. And you're correct - if they don't have any balls and kotow to whatever ignorant group cries, then fuck 'em.

I would really like to hear what Peters, Olson and Salba have to say about this. Maybe not broadcasted on the internet, but at least a personal opinion.

Anyway, I just ordered a hat through a UK distro. If some retard comes up to me and talks shit, I'll be more than happy to address it in person. Fuck their bullshit.
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