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| greedo |
 Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:07 pm |
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ORDER OF THE SKULL
Joined: 18 Jan 2011
Posts: 1486
Location: tattooine
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| Goon and SC know what they are doing, 40 years in the BIZ! Speaking of CEASE AND DESIST, did SC serve the guys at CEASE AND DESIST SKATEBOARDS with one? I notice after they put out the MONK, they havent put out anything. Just curious if yall smashed them. |
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kram |
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| slob-air |
| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:32 pm |
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Joined: 27 Oct 2001
Posts: 63528
Location: S&B HQ
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Jedi_deangelis wrote: nah.... that's obviously a rip on the movie poster art.
Show me. |
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| Clownbaby |
| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:53 pm |
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ORDER OF THE SKULL
Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Posts: 6252
Location: Oregon
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| slob-air |
| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:04 am |
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| Sticks |
| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:25 am |
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Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 10327
Location: Raytown Travel Agency
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| hotrod |
| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:32 am |
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ORDER OF THE SKULL
Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 8515
Location: The Grid
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Of course it fucking is, you blind bastard!  |
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I CAN'T SKATE FOR SHIT
....but I can skate for Bacon wrapped hotdogs with pulled pork and Glass bottled Dr Pepper! |
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| slob-air |
| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:07 am |
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Joined: 27 Oct 2001
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Location: S&B HQ
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hotrod wrote: Of course it fucking is, you blind bastard!
Not even close, yeah blind fucker!
Skull/eyes angle/perspective I'll give you, but nothing more. Beyond that its not even close. |
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| holyghost |
| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:24 pm |
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Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 4042
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slob-air wrote: hotrod wrote: Of course it fucking is, you blind bastard!
Not even close, yeah blind fucker!
Skull/eyes angle/perspective I'll give you, but nothing more. Beyond that its not even close.
I wouldn't presume to sit and tell you how to skate a pool or run a website, so I think it's odd for you to preach to others about art. Sorry Slob, the difference is negligible to the point where I could, as an artist, do exactly what I said. Illustrator live trace, with less than an hour of tweaking turns one into the other.
Not the first instance where NHS crossed or at least tiptoed across the very murky line between tribute and theft. Murky enough to be pressed and given all kinds of leeway.
And yes to Greedo, they know what they are doing. They know very well the legal line over which they cannot pass to avoid infringement of an image. Being a corporation it is their job - not the creation of art and stoking of skaters as is often claimed as a way of building customer loyalty - but the creation and protection of money and profit. They know damn well how to protect profit. But that's not what we are referring to.
We are referring to and discussing the holier than thou artistic rationalization made by Goon and those like him, who is somehow protecting an imaginary perfect honor and respect for art and imagery - an impeccable reputation for originality and faithful service to the skate world. Like any corporate claim to that end, it is complete horseshit. Business are in business to make money, and rationalizations, as I said, are as varied as the instances in which they are made. In the mind of Goon, they are victims. And in regards to the fashion designer they are. As is the artist of the Evil Dead work, and whoever created the original Mr. Horsepower bird from the 60's, and Ed Roth, and Robert Crumb, and the estate of Virgil Finlay, and the estate of M.C. Escher, and others. Holier than thou is bullshit.
I'm not contending that the douche fashion guy didn't rip SC. Not at all. I'm contending SC isn't clean and tidy as their public statement would suggest. And have yet to hear Goon answer to that, or anyone else as the mouthpiece for SC for that matter. |
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| slob-air |
| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:52 pm |
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Joined: 27 Oct 2001
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holyghost wrote: the difference is negligible to the point where I could, as an artist, do exactly what I said. Illustrator live trace, with less than an hour of tweaking turns one into the other.
You could do that with any image. There's no point in doing it that way. And the Santa Cruz graphic has hundreds of differences so its very fucking unlikely. I've been doing comp graphics since 1995, I know my shit and I know you're wrong on this one. The only thing remotely similar beyond both being skulls is the angle of perception. Look at the fucking teeth, not even remotely close.
And this would not only not get a cease and desist, no lawyer would try to go after it due to the hundreds of differences I've noted in the image.
Even google image doesn't find it even remotely similar.
"Looks kind of like" just doesn't fucking cut it. Nor is that grounds to slander the brand that created it.
Possibly an inspiration, maybe more, but it ain't copped. |
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| holyghost |
| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:58 pm |
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Joined: 11 Sep 2003
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slob-air wrote: holyghost wrote: the difference is negligible to the point where I could, as an artist, do exactly what I said. Illustrator live trace, with less than an hour of tweaking turns one into the other.
You could do that with any image. There's no point in doing it that way. And the Santa Cruz graphic has hundreds of differences so its very fucking unlikely. I've been doing comp graphics since 1995, I know my shit and I know you're wrong on this one. The only thing remotely similar beyond both being skulls is the angle of perception. Look at the fucking teeth, not even remotely close.
And this would not only not get a cease and desist, no lawyer would try to go after it due to the hundreds of differences I've noted in the image.
Even google image doesn't find it even remotely similar.
"Looks kind of like" just doesn't fucking cut it. Nor is that grounds to slander the brand that created it.
Quote: Possibly an inspiration, maybe more, but it ain't copped .
More than likely why it hasn't been C&Ded, and this is exactly the kind of endless gray areas I pointed out. Now I see it as an easy translation of the movie poster, you don't. My point was never that it was a "catchable" offense of plagiarism. Just that SC isn't exactly flying on the fuel of their own pure and impeccable vision, as they would claim. Maybe I went too far in deriding that aspect with that graphic, and it's why to me the discussion has gone off course into that.
In my mind that is a small part of the discussion in this thread. Who is addressing all the other points above? Noone. And noone will, because it's common for companies to put out legal statements that smack of "spin" in order to continue garnering brand loyalty, without actually adressing it deeply within their own customer base or their own artistic vision.
You would be hard pressed to find any companies, ANY, who don't press the boundaries of image theft. Sorry, but there simply haven't been many true originals since 3 guys lived their lives on this earth - 1. first caveman (and I somehow inside of me I know for certain it's one guy who did all of it) who invented fire, hunting and hunting tools, use of herbs for medicine and the act of farming, the wheel, created tools, and painted on caves the first time, 2. Jesus Christ, and 3. Leonardo Da Vinci. Everything is in one way, shape or form a derivation of the work of those 3 people, and even they are a derivation of eachother or of the natural world as it presents itself..
Moving on from philosophical nonsense, SC is as guilty as any other brand of copping art from others that came before them, sometimes very closely touching the boundaries of theft but never crossing the imaginary line. Smart by them, because they are smart businessmen. Always riding the line, never crossing it. It's legal, is it artistically moral? There's just absolutely noone to say about that, because no entity governs that entire realm of action. So the boundary gets continually pushed, by everyone who can push it, because true originality is much harder to achieve and works in reverse of the aim of business - which is to put out, sell and churn through as much stock as possible as quickly as possible while maintaining your sales at the same or increasing levels. Hence originality suffers immensely and endlessly.
I don't even take issue with that, because it's so unbelievably commonplace that for any product producers to suggest it isn't happening to them AND by them comes from one of two things - alternate agendas that won't allow for full truth (see above), or a complete lack of knowledge in art history. What the fashion douche did is a blatant act of stupidity which is why he got slammed. But rolling up into threads like this, as Goon does, and claiming Santa Cruz to be a shining beacon and bastion of originality, is a full measure of pure vomit. |
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