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| 74chris |
 Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2001 1:52 am |
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Joined: 25 Oct 2001
Posts: 3363
Location: Nation's Capitol
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Here is my Question.
Why is the Ollie Gelfand so freakin popular? I remember working at a Skateshop in the DC area in the mid 80's and we still had those boards in the back. We couldn't trade one for a freakin happy meal back then. But now a mint one is going for 2 G's. I personally think the board is ugly as shit.
As for the SC and the Powell debate, I would have to say SC constructed a better board overall. A lot of people bitch and moan about the bonite, but remember SC had the foam core boards that flopped also. Those things snapped like a toothpick. Plus the fact that the the silk screening wouldn't stay on, so they had to put on giant stickers. Of course try to find a mint one now for under 500.00.
My opinion, they PP Vallely is over rated and the best graphics were the Kendall Graffiti, Jessee Neptune, Mountain FP, Zorlac fire demon, and Powell Peralta Steadham Spade (over rated price wise, yes, but how many other early 80's boards have you seen with a skull w/ dreads and a wicked cut away tail)?
Anyone know if Powell is giving some of the money from their re-issue boards to the original riders, or are they just ripping them off?
[ This Message was edited by: 74chris on 2001-12-05 01:55 ] |
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| 24-hour-pool-service |
| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2001 3:15 am |
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Joined: 04 Dec 2001
Posts: 92
Location: Ohio USA
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OK first thing, to 74chris
the graphics don't belong to the riders, they belong to the artist who drew them.
Now as for the actual debate here, which is better Powell Peralta or Santa Cruz?In my opinion as far as wood they are equal, they both lasted about the same time(leaving out Bonite and Foam Cores of course  ). Now as for graphics VC Johnson's designs are what originated all the graphics that would come out of all the other companies. Jim Philips even admited that he was forced to alter his style to keep up with what Powell Peralta was doing. Now for concave, I myself prefer Powell Peralta's flater more mellow concave for crusing because for me it easier to maintain control. In vert Santa Cruz had the early advantage because they did have steeper concave, but to this day the main board I ride in a half pipe is the full size Caballero Dragon. I will admit that as of right now the only Santa Cruz decks I own are a Grosso face and a Jason Jesse hot rod so my opinion is based pretty much on my memories. One thing I do know for sure is that Powell Peralta wheels were in a league of thier own, nobodys wheels came close.
The only thing that REALLY matters is that you go out and have fun no matter what board you prefer.
Jason |
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| suicidalxmaniac |
| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2001 9:37 am |
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ORDER OF THE SKULL
Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 5254
Location: The Netherlands
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santa cruz; punk rock.jim phillips.natas.tom knox (sxe!!!).punk rock.
powell peralta; electro beats.neon pink.vc johnson.the hawk (as if the th birdskull graphics aren't the best graphics of all time).rat bones logo.
the toughest choice of all time.
santa cruz wins.imho.
michiel |
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| Clay Hutz |
| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2001 2:43 pm |
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Joined: 19 Nov 2001
Posts: 198
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| Awww...come on! Jim Phillips art? Cell Blocks? Coffin Cuts? Best f'n products ever! SC Blacktop vs. soggy-when-wet Boneite wins first round by TKO. Grosso? Demontrond? Boyle? Powell-Peralta's boys had NOTHING on the punkers over at S.C. Then again, I don't recall being a very socially apt guy back then either... |
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| slob-air |
| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2001 5:06 pm |
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Site Admin
Joined: 27 Oct 2001
Posts: 63531
Location: S&B HQ
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24-hour-pool-service, chances that the artwork is owned by the artist is very low. It's like the record industry - any smart businesman would have them sign over all rights.
That said, the situation of companies like Powell reissueing designs minus Joe Blow Pro's imprint is quite possibly actionable under US law. That the company promoted and marketed said graphics as being a particular pros model, compensation is due, regardless if they didn't put the pros name on it in the reissue. That is uneless the pro signed off all rights in that respect.
As for Powell wheel... trust me, they suck. There was a ton of wheels that smoked those big fat hunks of urethane Powell used to sell as wheels. Variflex X, Gyros, Blackharts, Slimeballs, Alva Naturals and even Sims The Wheels out performed the Powell crap.
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| www.spyhillskates.com |
| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2001 11:57 pm |
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Joined: 28 Oct 2001
Posts: 3688
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24 Hour Pool Service is right about who owns the art. It certainly wasn't the skater. I don't know what VC had arranged with George Powell, but Jim Phillips stopped designing boards for SC because they didn't want to pay a % to him for every board they sold. And all his illustrations are his property, not NHS'. Even if they own the originals of some pieces, Jim retains rights to any reproductions.
Wood quality for Powell and Santa Cruz were both pretty good (Bonite and Foamcore being exceptions), it was Vision that made cheap crap. Johnson did some great art for Powell from '79 to '84, but design-wise I'd say that Powell boards got eclipsed by Santa Cruz by the mid to late 80s (but I'm a big Jim Phillips fan). For me, Powell kind of wore the whole skull thing out with Mike McGill's 2nd board (skull and snake??? very goofy). I also think that attributing all skate art to VCJ is a little off. I think the first Dogtown designs by Wes Humpston really set the standard for putting cool graphics on boards. Wes couldn't compete with Johnson or Phillips as a pure illustrator, but his type design was top notch. He borrowed very nicely from the psychadelic poster artists - especially Stanley Mouse and Rick Griffin (a surfer!). If you don't know Rick's stuff you gotta check it out! Some of Wes' designs from the late 80s are great too � Aaron Murray, Micke Alba, Scott Oster, and many more...
I like so many companies that it's tough to put SC or Powell on the top of the heap. Pushead's graphics (also a Mouse and Griffin fan) for Zorlac were incredible. I'm not a big fan of the slew of Metallica models, but he's one of the tightest illustrators on the scene . . . He never used white out!!! Not sure who the artists were, but companies like Brand-X and Skull Skates had excellent designs.
I guess what I'm trying to say is each company had it's great ones and each had their day in the sun. They both pretty much suck now, so let's go skate an forget about this shit.
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| slob-air |
| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2001 3:31 am |
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Site Admin
Joined: 27 Oct 2001
Posts: 63531
Location: S&B HQ
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If the companies didn't purchase the rights to the art that explains a lot about their business tedencies. And you're right, the skater does not own the art. However, as I attempted to explain,Powell marketed the original Gelfand model with specific graphics that were recognizable as being part and parcel of his model -- ergo, his trademark. For Powell to reissue the graphics without Gelfand's imprint doesn't change a thing. He is still in an actionable position regardless of who actually owns the art and legally should be compensated via royalties. That said, with the reissue being a short run, it wouldn't be worth it for Gelfand to pursue it in court -- his time would be better spent on his lot selling cars.
No doubt Powell is banking on that.
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| THE GRIME |
| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2001 3:51 am |
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Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 404
Location: Trying to Break Free
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| i'm with devilock for the most part one this one. also, c.r. stecyk (sp?) is the one responsible for one of the most recognizable icons- the vato rat (well, at least in propelling it to it's heights). and he was one of the heavy hitters in the dogtown camp's early days- which says a lot! but hell, apples and oranges..... what can ya do? |
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| slob-air |
| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2001 12:29 pm |
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Site Admin
Joined: 27 Oct 2001
Posts: 63531
Location: S&B HQ
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Well I guess like any other world conflict.... we go to war. How does no rules nuckle-down bar brawl sound? And rather than risking a world war over this, let's just pit oldschool team against oldschool team.
SANTA CRUZ TEAM
Duane Peters, Steve Olson, George Orton, SALBA, MALBA, Rob Roskop.
VS.
Bones Brigade
Cab, Ray Bones, Stacy Peralta, Hawk, Rodney Mullen, Alan Gelfand. |
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| www.spyhillskates.com |
| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2001 1:03 pm |
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Joined: 28 Oct 2001
Posts: 3688
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| You gotta know that Bulky, the Master of Disaster, and the rest of the SC boys would wipe the pretty boys like Hawk and the Bones Brigade off the map if it came down to a brawl. Or are we still talking skateboarding? |
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