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| fromohio |
 Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 10:08 pm |
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Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 1018
Location: Yompton, Ohio
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i agree with the duck foot being more of a frame of mind than a scientifically proven stance. I never liked it and unless you are strictly jibbing or buttering flat ground tricks, you won't find it very useful.
im regular (it's the fiber), 20� wide, .75" back from the center of the SIDECUT and I usually go with about 18-21 front and 3-6 back foot. Lots of forward lean for driving that edge on backside walls in the pipe. I roll on a 2004 K2 Zepplin 152 with burton C-14 customs and forum peter line boots.
I've been riding for 14 years and spent 7 of them living in snowmass colorado. I'm now in Ohio, where I grew up, married, and wondering what the fuck went wrong?
anybody in northeast ohio want to ride im game. any east coasters want to travel, im game. anybody want to go ride while it's white out period, im game.
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if it aint fromohio, where is it from?
[ This Message was edited by: fromohio on 2004-02-14 23:06 ] |
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| ukoldschool |
| Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 4:26 pm |
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Joined: 13 Oct 2001
Posts: 7189
Location: London, UK
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| you reccomend forward lean in the pipe? Ive always had problems onthe baside/heel edge wall - just wan to carve it our rather than attack it. |
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| Barnyard |
| Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 10:53 am |
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Joined: 07 Dec 2001
Posts: 595
Location: Incline Village, NV
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| fromohio |
| Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 2:54 pm |
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Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 1018
Location: Yompton, Ohio
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UK...are you saying you would rather carve the pipe than ride it? I kind of lost you there for a second...
I snowboard on all terrain but I have spent more days hiking a pipe than anything else. I lived at a resort with one of the best pipes in the country, year after year. Now the host to the X-games and the superpipe for the last, and next, 3 years.
I can honestly say I have put in about 10, 395 (7 years, 9 months per year, 5.5 hours per day) hours riding the pipe. I have been there for the higbacks, no backs, baseless, click in, straps and the sims freestyle binding days. those hours dont even include the first few and the last few years when pipe was not my focus of riding. I wass definately a "pipe-jock" though for several years. The only thing that pulled me away from the pipe was fresh powder or a big back country kicker. but when it comes to pipe riding, my most productive years and days were with strap in bindings, forward lean and 18 and 6 for my angles.
My biggest piece of advice for you, or anybody, that is struggling with backside walls in the pipe is to look at what your shoulders are doing. When you are approaching the wall, be it frontside or backside, you want a quiet upper body and your shoulders should be parallel to your line of approach and totally over your board. You should be squatting a little and have plenty of compression to allow for some pop off the lip (not too much) and to pump the tranny as you ride up the wall. Squaring the shoulders over the board will bring your pipe riding to a new level. forward lean forces you to stay in a bent-knee stance when approaching the wall or a hit. the higback also responds more quickly to a slight adjustment in weight and helps to drive that edge into and up the wall. I'm not advocating you go out there with the forward lean adjusters cranked all the way up at a cramp inducing angle but you should ad a few degrees of lean to each foot for pipe riding if you want to become better at it.
I'd say if you normally rode 2-3 degree of forward lean on the front foot and 3-4 deegree on the back, then you are already ok. but if you normally free-ride with no forward lean, then add some for the pipe.
your stance angles ultimately boil down to what you like and what feels good to you. Just dont ever under-estimate the importance of knowing what's wrong and how to correct it. It can really make an average rider into an excellent rider if his set up is matched to him and his body.
I still ride pipe, just not as frequently and not as consistently but I stand by the forward lean advice 100%.
I'm 35 and this sunday I will be entering my old ass in a pipe contest at Peak N Peak to see how I compare to the young guns.
I'm not sure how many other guys in this forum are into snowboarding but I have dedicated a large part of my life to it and even made it to the podium a few times with the big guys and I would love to help anybody else have some fun, progress and enjoy another reason to stay healthy for life.
good luck and keep on it!
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| ukoldschool |
| Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 3:30 pm |
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Joined: 13 Oct 2001
Posts: 7189
Location: London, UK
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thanks for that - just what I was after.
What i was trying to say before is that frontside I can do nicely, edge on pump up, pop the top, grab and back in, then when I get to the other side I have a tendancy to carve the wall out rather than pop out the top. Its like my body has an aversion to backside which is Ironic as on a board im strictly a backside man..... I run 2 strap flux bindings, and have always run no forward lean whatsoever (well, I set the binding to the absolute minimum it will go). Ive always put my lack of backside ability down to my tendancy to hit jumps off the toe edge or flat - never off the heel...... I dont want to get mad air int he pipe, but id like to be able to pull enough to grab and tweak both walls rather than just one. Im riding a forum 162 Jeremy Jones which is probably a bit big for pipe riding (?) but Im about 6ft and have long legs so it suits me fine all round.
When you talk about squaring up the shoulders what do you mean? can you try and explain it a bit better?
J. |
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| fromohio |
| Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:24 pm |
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Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 1018
Location: Yompton, Ohio
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that is what I thought you meant.
I also had the same problems in the beginning. it was the same on the mountain hitting kickers and etc...I always felt better jumping from the toes. Once you master that heel edge you will open new doors for yourself.
in the pipe, when I say "squaring your shoulders" I really mean keeping them A)centered over your stance and B)completely parallel with the boards edge. You can have a slightly "open" shoulder to allow a better view of the wall as you approach but you want to keep the shoulders parallel and over the board as much as possible without going blind...this is to say that it is much easier to hit frontside walls than backside walls due to the fact our heads are put on facing forward. lol.
also, to expand on the binding forward lean: I am not sure about the Flow bindings but I ride Burton Custom c-14s and they have a decent amount of forward lean in the highback without much adjustment but I still kick them up one notch. Take a look at one of your bindings from the side and see how much angle the highback has in comparison to the base...if it is really straight up and down, then add some forward lean. If it is leaning forward a few degrees, then maybe try the shoulder trick first, then go about fiddling with the forward lean.
that backside carve in the pipe can also come from having too stiff of a leg going into the wall. make sure to be compressed and bent at the knees NOT at the hips. try going straighter at the backside hit you are approaching as well. that might help you get out of the pipe rather than down the pipe.
Another thing I do is ride razor sharp edges that are not detuned except for where the board is not touching the snow; ie: the tip and tail. I completely round those parts of the edge and only take a stone over the first inch of the effective edge of my board. These edges allow the board to bite into even the hardest frozen ice pipes.
If you are turning the shoulder TOO much past the parallel point you will usually turn down the pipe and literally carve the backside wall on your toe edge...is this happening to you at all? If you are kind of "washing out and sliding across the backside wall, then you are most likely coming in with your shoulders too "open" and/or your legs too stiff.
I find that hiking the pipe on your backside wall and looking down over the lip, spotting the perfect hits helps too. It allows me to focus more on a spot on the wall that I have picked out and less on my fears of going backside. I have no idea what the pipe looks like where you ride either and sometimes a pipe can be it's own worst enemy. if the walls are too icy, or kinked, or dont have enough height on them you have a new set of parameters to deal with.
tape yourself riding the pipe and watch it to see what you are doing wrong and correct it the next time. And just plain old practice a lot. that helps the most.
Oh yeah..and I re-read your original post..maybe until you figure it out on the backside wall you shold try putting that back foot at 3 degree forward angle to help keep that heel edge on the wall. after you have done several good runs and your backside walls are feeling better, then switch it back gradually to the duck stance you were riding if you like it. a lot of times, once you sorrect the problem with your body, you can adapt and ride the pipe with most stances and any old board. it is really a body mechanics issue and less of an equipment issue.
I hope this helps you. if you need anything else let me know. Im glad to help a fellow snow-slider!
Good Luck!
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| fromohio |
| Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:27 pm |
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Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 1018
Location: Yompton, Ohio
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oh yeah...can you tell me more about the stance on that board and the board itself?
i wondered if it was center stance or set back any..and how is the board's flex? stiff, soft, torsionally stiff? anything might help me to help you.
also how wide is the stance you ride on the board?
thanks
Jay
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