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| waxux |
 Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 8:17 pm |
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Joined: 16 Nov 2003
Posts: 142
Location: Outer Banks NC
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So nobody is willing to discuss polyurethane glues huh? Well that's ok, I see the current trend is on laminating with epoxy and using fiberglass, or carbon fiber to prolong the life of a deck. I have used epoxy to laminate with in the past as I mentioned before but I just didn't feel that it was that much better in overall end product.
There are some inherent benifits to using poly glues;
They cure more efectively with the presence of moisture.
They have a natural wicking property.
They have a shorter press time.
They have excellent gap filling properties.
They require less coverage.
Less overall cure time.
There are also drawbacks;
They are expensive.
They are messy.
They can be difficult to apply.
I will be pressing some 7 ply blanks with polyurethane adhesives
in the very near future to test against decks made with traditional glues. If anyone is willing to do there own tests and offer an honest opinion to how they hold up, I would like to hear from you.
I would be charging for the blanks of course but they will go for material cost. If y'all think I'm a quack let that be known as well.
Mike |
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| pennswood |
| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:52 am |
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Joined: 14 Sep 2003
Posts: 213
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we use some polyurethane glues occasionaly.
they are very quick setting,
press time 10 minutes,
you can then cut and finish within 1 hour.
strong bond for sure.
draw back for production is they can not be used in a glue spreader,
clean up is very difficult,
if you get it on your skin it causes problems,
and it costs 6 times as much as PVA.
if you are just playing around making a few boards,
it works ok.
it is suited for vacuum bag molding,
the vacuum also draws it into the wood ,
so you need to put a fair amount on,
or you can draw the glue line very thin.
to prototype new concaves this stuff is great.
PU will also wet and bond some of the cloths and weaves.
but seriously who needs that stuff carbon fibre, kevlar,etc....
you are going to wear out the tail in a matter of weeks,
who wants a $100 unbreakable board with a 4 inch razor tail? |
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| slob-air |
| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:08 am |
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Joined: 27 Oct 2001
Posts: 63534
Location: S&B HQ
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pennswood wrote:
you are going to wear out the tail in a matter of weeks,
who wants a $100 unbreakable board with a 4 inch razor tail?
That's not the case for slalom, speedboarding and pool riding�one doesn't get much razer tail in those applications. |
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| skateight |
| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:57 am |
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ORDER OF THE SKULL
Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 2857
Location: Earth
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I use tailbones and rails on my boards, so wear is not a problem.
I still have a board I made from a blank in 1986!
I know, I'm old. |
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| skinny |
| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:15 am |
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Joined: 12 Sep 2004
Posts: 2706
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I have begun using plutonium in an effort to mutate the cellular structure of Maple, and then using liquid kryptonite to bond it permenently. I am looking foward to lymphoma.
The biggest problem so far is keeping Superman from stealing my shit. |
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| mkelty |
| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:20 pm |
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ORDER OF THE SKULL
Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 3644
Location: Springfield, OR
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waxux wrote: mkelty, is your deck in any kind of shape to get a shape template? How about a mold shape? I am starting to think about this a little more so keep in touch. I would certainly want to get the shape and mold right as well as the layup.
I have a template based on an NOS one (slated to head to John Schultes tomorrow...  , and I have another UWS deck that is usable for discerning the concave on (the UWS Magnusson Hex was made on the same mold, with a slightly longer wheelbase).
Given the propensity of these decks to dry and separate, I'm wondering if a binding all around the edge would help keep the moisture level of the wood intact, perhaps with a poyeurethane finish?
As far as the PE glues, while I'm no rocket scientist, I do believe they are a more flexible glue, which would be counterproductive to good pop. Basically, the flexible glue helps the board stay together better (it flexes to dirtibute load), but loses stiffness. Think of it as more durable, and less rigid.
Maybe as a pool deck, that might be ideal, but for a deck that's going to be subject to a lot of tail pressure (i.e. street/Ollie), it might not be the best choice.
Waxux, I'd love to help with this, and there are a couple other's who have PM'ed me with fervent interest... |
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| waxux |
| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:00 am |
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Joined: 16 Nov 2003
Posts: 142
Location: Outer Banks NC
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Skinny you lucky bastard! I have been trying to get plutonium infused maple, but "Giant Pond Veneer Co." wants a minimum of a million decks worth for an initial order. And thanks Penns, you helped me decide on going forward with my ideas. That input was exactly what I was looking for.
I don't have a glue machine and on average we press less than 200 decks per year. PU glue is the right chioce for pressing decks with the verticlly laminated veneer I have in mind. And I have given much thought on the tip and tail wear issue and might have something figured out. I still need to raise some cash to get things rolling again though.
Anyone interested in some maple veneer?
Thanks all....
Mike |
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| mkelty |
| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:32 pm |
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ORDER OF THE SKULL
Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 3644
Location: Springfield, OR
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Back, back, back up from the depths....
In case there is any interest in the Epoxy Glass decks, I've located Doug (the owner of UWS), and was able to solve some mysteries of UWS decks.
He was brimming with suggestions, and let me know he'd be happy to answer any questions.
Waxux, I'd still love to have you make some if you're willing, so if you have any more ?'s from the master of 80's fiberglass, lay them on.... |
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| chrisolden |
| Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:17 am |
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Joined: 22 Mar 2003
Posts: 2898
Location: NorCal
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slob-air wrote: pennswood wrote:
you are going to wear out the tail in a matter of weeks,
who wants a $100 unbreakable board with a 4 inch razor tail?
That's not the case for slalom, speedboarding and pool riding�one doesn't get much razor tail in those applications.
EXACTLY what I was thinking as I read this VERY interesting thread.
My boards tend to "die" by stress. I don't wear out tails, and rarely
do massive damage by impact. However, my boards have a tendency
to develop A LOT of stress fractures(all companies boards I've ridden
do this) and eventually lose their "pop"/spring whatever you want
to call it.
I'd be far more interested in seeing a deck done with the old
Uncle Wiggly type of construction than another re-issue deck.
co |
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| yoyo |
| Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:54 pm |
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ORDER OF THE SKULL
Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 2228
Location: Germany
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waxux wrote: I can definately try. Right now I need to get some scratch together to do anything lol but we can talk....
Pls check your www-link at the bottom as it does not work as it's double.... |
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